This is about mentalist Peter Turner, not about magician Pete Turner. Please keep that in mind when reading.
I somehow missed that guy. According to the Green Monster is the Messiahs of mentalism. So I checked him out via Youtube. What I found was a guy who is talking, and talking, and talking, and talking and doing fairly weak effects. What did I miss? Did I he do anything that is the new thing on the mental horizon?
There is this Question and Answer video out there, that has Peter Turner basically bullshitting for 90 minutes. I listened to all of it. It was long.... way too long. Peter Turner was repeating the same darn point over and over again and added nothing of value. He demonstrated an effect that I am like 95% sure was stooged all the way.
Also he has an ebook out for 500 bucks.... (AN EBOOK, no physical copy!)
So what is up with him?
34 comments:
Not sure there is anything up with him. Fellow Messiah Jerome Finley has managed to sell an ebook for $1000.
It's the people who have paid for this stuff you need to look to.
Not sure either Pete or Jerome add significantly to what's gone before but plenty of people out there willing to buy the hype.
Moronic.
Pete and Jerome have vastly different approaches to their respective material. The attempt at drawing parity between the two for the purposes of lumping them together as "messianic, expensive ebook buddies" is just absurd.
I would agree that Jerome believes in himself a bit too much and is very quick to get prickly in response to any criticism, especially when that criticism is focused on his rather outrageous pricing. And his material is defintely not for everyone. But some of it is very good, if not strictly theoretical.
I find Pete's work to be much more accessible, both in design and in consideration for the experience of the spectators at hand. And it's much more...pragmatic(?) than Jerome's. Plus, Jerome has brought a lot of the heat on himself by being a bit too defensive and obstinate and acting too frequently like an asshole. So he deserves it to a certain extent. But he is thoughtful and talented. If only he would learn to keep his mouth shut and ignore the haters and give a good listen to some of his more reasonable detractors. But I don't think that's going to happen any time soon.
As far as your comment goes...
It's perfectly reasonable to inquire as to Mr Turners credentials, so let me give you my answer.
He is very much the real deal and his created some very strong, innovative, and impactful material, which certainly deserves its place on the shelf amongst the other great works in the modern mentalist canon. He is certainly no flash in the pan, and his work will most certainly endure.
He is very much worthy of the praise he receives, Roland. Believe it or not.
They both sell ludicrously overpriced material, and if you think Pete Turner is very much worthy of the praise he receives then I conversely think he is equally deserving of being labelled as an overpriced, hyped up wind bag.
As for Jerome Finley? I've seen a couple of ebooks by that egregious cretin, (it's funny what you can find on the internet for nothing), and not only did I read nothing remotely worth paying $1000 for, I didn't read anything worth $10.
My 'prediction' is that both of these fatuous assholes will fade into obscurity.
BS
The Jerome Finley ebooks are available on Scribd.com as free PDFs and there is nothing worth $10 in them as you said.
Not being a mentalist myself I wouldn't fork out for the book, but I have seen him lecture.
I don't think I'd have the stones to try any of his stuff out, multiple layers of dual reality, mixed with instant stooging and cleverly obfuscated pre-show. It looks like a setup and if you saw it on TV you'd assume they were all actors but I've seen him do this stuff on a room full of magicians, one of whom was brought to tears by what was essentially an ACAAN with a personality reading in the middle.
If you can make his material work, it's probably worth every penny, but I question whether anyone else would have what it takes to work Pete's material.
Check out this one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_CBfCz9B0k
essentially him talking for 9 minutes to reveal a basic watch force. No revelation of the scenario that she mentally thought of. Plus the ending with the piece of paper will just be a quote saying to believe in yourself
He is likeable but if you're going to talk at least have it serve a purpose. When people want to see a mind reader they want to a. have their mind read b. be entertained. Searching for this deep emotional connection over a simple trick? better stick to palmistry or the tarot.
In that video he comes across as vaguely patronising and far too young to be giving Sharon advice.
And the cardinal sin of being boring.
I saw the penguin lecture which was mostly pre-show and instant stooging and certainly nothing new unless you count the emphasis on emotional connection.
But his audience for the penguin lecture looked younger than him so he certainly impresses the youngsters, oh and Kenton rates him.
Well, at least it's known for a fact that Thought Veil is a book that has a lot about real NLP and Hypnosis that Jerome has studied for years in workshops, but what what can we say about Peter? He sells something called the demons book at 1.500 dollars, I mean really? 1.500 dollars for methods that fail?
Jinxed is full of this guy rambling and rambling about a lot of principles, something that not even Annemann claimed about, they start talking about all this nonsense, like the CUPS principle, and stuff that's obviously OLD but rehashed and made to look like something new and original.
And how about creating fake hype? Along with several friends we discover someone makes random posts to hype this guy. Also his emotional approach, you cannot be so serious all the time, try to use that bullshit approach on group of guys in beer bar and you will look ultra gay.
He constantly tells that method is notm important. What else to say with such bullshit material?
We could start a massive debate on NLP. I believe at a certain level there are truths in it but, like Darren Brown, am sceptical of the claims made for it.
Especially since I have never seen anything in mentalism, citing NLP that hasn't at its core been more practical trickery...happy to learn better though.
Agree on the Pete thing..I think his schtick would work on a certain kind of person. As a 50+ yr old I would laugh in his face if he scribbled on a tatty piece of paper with his chewed bic and told me to keep it for a challenging life moment and not open it before or I would have bad luck.
On a grumpy bigoted note I would suggest that there's a limited audience appeal for somebody with a tattooed chin or even worse tattooed fingers. Unfortunately for me it screams "idiot", but each to their own.
One other thing that annoys me is the concept of being "bold", which in Turners case seems to mean guessing.
But interesting that in his penguin lecture he tells somebody their star sign and then reveals he guessed and would have an out if wrong. But he wasn't wrong which makes me wonder if this wasn't BS and he'd preshowed to prove some stupid point. I fail to see the benefit of guessing on a 1 in 12 chance if being right
For me it screams "cunt",
But for Jerome [I speak to dead people] Finley, it screams "gigantic cunt".
BS
Pete is a complete and utter genuis.
I have been following his work since day one and the work he does is simply incredible, he is creating a new generation of mentalism that has never been seen before.
I don't think hes ever produced a 500 dollar ebook? If so I definitey missed it
If you don't like Petes work you have obviously not tried it and seen the real value. Try not to bash people that you know nothing about please
Alright, look here...
First thing is first about Pete and Jerome's work, if you can handle the heat then don't go anywhere near the kitchen and while you're at it please quit bitching up a storm. I was that guy at the Penguin lecture and got to spend a week with Pete filming Free Form Mentalism, which was a blast. If I have learned anything studying people like Pete, Jerome and another personal hero of mine, Justin Tranz, people will hate because they don't have the ability to move outside their comfort level or fail on occasion, which I find is essential to pull a lot of the material off.
Jerome and Pete have been some of the most supportive, kind and personable people I have met so far. As for the prices, Pete has explained multiple DVD's worth of material to me over Skype and when he was here in Columbus. I bought the products anyway because I SUPPORT MY FRIENDS instead of being a spineless little bastard posting on a blog about how I am too poor from my internet porn addiction to invest in a creators work, too antisocial to actually find out who these people actually are and because I am terrified of the prior then naturally I am scared of the material itself as well.
Bottom line here is that I am not saying all of you a bunch of spineless inconsiderate bastards...but you all sure are.
-Jakob
Who the hell is Roland Henning? Who the hell is anyone? Why should anyone care?
I was directed to the post by a friend as until now I've been unaware of this website. A website that seems to me has been started out of bitterness, spite and all that is wrong in the magic industry.
Onto the topic at hand. I can't speak for Jerome's work as I am not familiar with it and haven't purchased any. Pete's work however... you say he talks too much? I say you don't understand his approach. Would you prefer him to simply present a thought reading demonstration as "you think of something and I'll tell you what it is"? Surely not? This wouldn't be entertaining, it wouldn't connect with an audience. His methods range from streamlined and impromptu to intricate and meticulous (I've known him plan one moment months in advance and the outcome was beautiful, almost life changing and just for one very lucky person).
Should we all just do the same thing? Should we all be drones and present our art the same way or should we do what feels right to us? So Pete and Jerome's style doesn't suit you, that's fine, that being said I'd imagine your style wouldn't suit them but I'd doubt they'd ever feel the need to slate you for it.
You are you, I am me. Our opinions will differ from time to time but one thing is true, a constant, life is too short to be bitter. Live and let live.
I can't believe such people as the author of this blog are allowed to spread their opinion on the internet. Of course he doesn't like Peter Turner (or Jerome Finley for that matter). He is the type of guy that wakes up in the morning and googles "best self working card trick" hoping to find a new thread on the Cafe about that topic. He should obviously stick to learning magic from youtube. I can't see him capable of more than a mathematical card trick, although even those tricks require some brain power which the author of this blog clearly lacks. Let me tell you why you (and the people who support your opinion) don't like what Peter does. Because you clearly are not made for this art. Yes, this is an art. Not just a simple hobby you can pick up in one week. You know why acclaimed veterans of this art give such praise to Peter? Because they took the time to study, practice and appreciate the art. If you are the kind of guy that feels disappointed when he finds out that in order for a trick to work, he has to force the number 7 on a spectator I have some bad news for you, mate.
With that in mind, I would like to urge everyone who agrees that Peter Turner is not deserving of the admiration he receives from REAL PERFORMERS (not bedroom magicians like you guys) to write his opinion down on a piece of paper, fold it in half then in half again and finally choke on it. Not because you have a different opinion than mine, but because through your arguments here you show total disrespect for the art of mentalism.
Thats funny and typical that in one day 4 fanboys jumped in to defend this cunt. Are you the same guys that started thread "peter turner - the future of mentalism"? type it in google and youll find spam posts on about four sites. So we all now see youre not legit. That guy wanted to be famous, now its more and more... funny to me.
Its incredible how many guys buy into his bullshit. You think his stuff is good? And we dont appreciate the art cos we dont like the guy material? LMAO, i found 10 x more value in 13 steps or any other classic than his rehearsed bullshit. LIpping? are you kidding me? that has been done before, i saw it somewhere in old book, he stolen so much stuff. Ihave bigger fish 2 (for free i woudnt pay a single dollarfor this) and his stuff is just retarded. If you cant see it it means youre very, very, very bad mentalist. Or youll soon be.
Hey Adrian, have you ever seen Roland perform? Have you ever seen a video of his performances? If you have not, then shut the fuck up, because if I search up Adrian Tugni, I will not find anything regarding magic or mentalism, but if I search up Roland Henning, I will find beautiful performances. Second of all, out of the many things you could have used to defend Pete Turner, you chose to say that Roland should be banned from the internet. Fuck you
First of all, that 90 minute Q&A he did for FullCircleMagic.com and their 5200 members, was done completely free so that his fans could connect with him and ask him questions. If you'd like to know WHO Peter Turner is google Kenton Knepper Live Q&A Full Circle Magic. This blog has less views than the interviews (yes plural) Peter does for us. He is a professional,knowledgeable, essential asset to the mentalism community. You are poorly informed if you don't think that he has carved a permanent place in the world of Mentalism. When the 5 books Peter Co-Authors with some of the greatest mentalists of all time come out you will have no problem knowing WHO Peter Turner is because you'll be hearing his name everywhere you turn. (obviously you must know because he warrented this little escapade to begin with)If you as a blogger want to make a name in the magic community, bashing talented people isn't the way to do it! Magicleaks who? shut out by performers thats who? If you want to report on TRUE INJUSTICES in the magic community, one of them should be that there are people who care so little for the brotherhood and the art that they spend their time going on childish rants rather than improving their own work first. WHO IS PETER TURNER? Who are you? Who are any of you bashing a PROFESSIONAL when no one has heard of your names? My suggestion is that you start putting in something tangible to the art instead of being a bottom feeder complaining about someone else. I book top professionals in this industry to come spend their time with our large membership of people because we stand for a positive learning environment and absolutely DO NOT allow anyone to be bashed and these Pros stand behind that message. You my friend are on the wrong side of the fence to make your little blog a staple in this industry. The ONLY reason I am taking spending my precsious time here is because I am hoping that my message makes some of you redirect your energies to improving the industry as a whole.
Laura Eisele
Co-Founder & Talent Co-ordinator
www.FullCircleMagic.com
(come to the other side on Full Circle Magic fb group)
Oh I see. I looked his name up on the internet. He has about 2 or 3 videos of him doing some sponge ball magic. Why is he talking about mentalism again? What is his business with mentalism? I would suggest him to stick to his sponge balls and leave the serious stuff for real performers. I'd rather not record myself while I repeat something for the camera after I rehearsed it 100 times. Does he even perform for real audiences?
As a silent student of the subject of this post I feel there's no really anything to add to what other people have written here. They already said it all.
If you don't understand, or better, if you do not appreciate what Peter does that's perfectly fine. You don't have to.
What I find disgusting is bragging about stealing others' intellectual propriety. This takes already out all the value there may be in your opinions.
Guys leave this blog alone, he's getting more attention from our reactions then he deserved.
Free Publicity!
I am another administrator of Full Circle Magic where Peter has been interviewed and has interviewed a number of other highly-regarded professionals himself. His knowledge and performing impact are both tremendous, and his fans also include many world famous mentalists. The one thing I want to correct in Roland's original post is his assertion that he is "95% certain" that an effect performed during his original interview with Joe Riggs was staged -- implying that Joe was stooging for Peter. This is absolutely NOT the case - you have to be talking about Peter's ACAAN, and he has made his reputation among magicians and mentalists with this effect. In a subsequent interview with Morgan Strebler and Ulieses Galeano, Peter performed this again at Morgan's request, again from the other side of the Atlantic, and again nailed it. Morgan's and Ulieses's responses are NOT staged -- they genuinely had their minds blown. Ask Morgan yourself if you don't believe it. Here's a link to that interview, jump forward to 25:30 to see Peter destroy their minds with this effect:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5hVRnLeGZI
Andy Hofer
Administrator, Full Circle Magic
https://www.facebook.com/groups/FullCircleMagic/
In all walks of life there will be those that rise to the top of their game and as a result of this they will be critiqued by those that feel they know better and for this reason the criticism found on this forum sadly does not surprise me.
The fact remains that no matter what your opinion is there will always be an equal amount of those that will oppose it this is a fact.
Wether anyone wishes to agree with this or not you have to realise that things arn't as clear cut as you would like to imagine.
Look between the black and white and you will find a whole spectrum of beautiful colours to choose from.
Rather than judge someone you haven't had took the time to know why not invest the same amount of effort you have used in publicly bad mouthing a character in looking at the qualities that have made this person so well known, are these qualities that exist within your own character? Are you perfect? Let he without sin cast the first stone.
I have only had brief dealings with Jerome and he appears to be a nice guy. Pete on the other hand I know much better and I don't think there is anyone more open to helping people. He is a genuinely nice person and for that alone he deserves some respect.
Instead of publicly humiliating people he spends his time studying this art and helping others and whilst I may not favour all of his methods I take from him the things that I do like and these in turn have inspired most of my recent material.
Take what you want and leave the rest, no one is forcing anything on you.
If you don't like his prices don't buy the products, if you don't like his methods then draw influence and use your own. The products and prices aren't important you can take them or leave them, it's the investment in people and human emotion that you should be taking and this is free to all that open their eyes.
If you open your eyes and read between the lines you will finally be able to see the wood for the trees.
These words will probably not change anyone's opinions of Pete as it seems most have already made their minds up but let me close by saying the following -
No matter wether you love him or hate him I will guarantee that you can learn something from him!
Faith in magic lost. The above comments were not a fun read.
Roland saw this name pop up and couldn't see what the fuss was about. He made a polite enquiry for people's opinions and everyone instantly goes on the defensive.
"You must not be a professional"
"You spend your money on porn instead of mentalism"
"You're just a magician"
"Your opinion is worth nothing"
The idea that anyone is above criticism is pathetic and the labelling of this post as slander or hate is equally so. I liked Full Circle Magic but totally unimpressed with the narrow-minded herd mentality of its members.
Whatever Pete Turner is, he isn't perfect. Nobody is! So chill out, honest criticism only makes the world a better place. :)
A polite inquiry? "Who the hell is Peter Turner" is polite? He accused Peter of BS and of using stooges and that's supposed to be a polite inquiry for opinons? Somehow it didn't come across that way, it came across as an attack.
Of course no one's above criticism, but that wasn't criticism, it was insult and attack. Thus the defense from Peter's friends and fans.
In a subsequent post, he also called Kenton Knepper and Bob Cassidy losers. I guess that's also supposed to be a polite opinion.
A bunch of magicians and mentalists arguing about and vilifying others? ON THE INTERNET NO LESS?
(gasp)
(faint)
Now that I've recovered from the shock, there are a few points I'd like to make: (if you'll permit me)
First, I need to echo a sentiment made in an earlier post; this business of admitting to illegally downloading an ebook simply to disparage it's merits AND call into question it's value is so far beyond my comprehension I find it hard to put it into words. It's like someone telling me 4 + 4 equals horse. It makes no sense to me.
It's that level of absurdity. Plus, what does that say about you as a person? Ever think about that? I would invite you to give it a fair amount of thought. Maybe you don't care. And I can respect that...but it still makes you a grade A jag bone.
Peter Turner is doing a great deal of work to try to make money. Fools who buy his hype deserve to get robbed. In Corinda and Annemann I trust. The rest are knockoff wannabes who just copy, repackage, refurbish, and try to resell the same stuff. I laugh when I see how over saturated the magic market already is. Magic secrets have become whores for sale for $5 a download! LMFAO. And then they cry. Don't blame anyone but yourselves for what has happened.
It's high time for magicians to dump mentalism as a sub-discipline. The modern mentalist is just too close to the psychic fakers and, in many cases, does the same material in the name of "showmanship."
If you want to be a fake psychic or a medium, fine, do that. Leave the magic to those of us who care about it.
And some more information for you: Apparently he is a student of Kenton Knepper who now has a download teaching you how to change people's lives. Available as an instant download for $50.00 from Penguin magic.
For 50 bucks you don't even get a product, just a download. I don't care who you are, that's just sickening; pathetic even.
I must say that I'm particularly interested in the trailer. While Turner is talking at one point, he has his guitar in his lap...What the fuck does that guitar have to do with anything? How very silly and sad, all at the same time.
Interesting debate. Shame about the name calling from both sides.
Peter Turner has some brilliant ideas and some laughably poor ones.
Jerome Finley has some good and original ideas. Sadly, none of the good ideas are original and none of his original ideas are any good. And his stuff is ridiculously over-priced. But he knows there are a lot of desperate newbies who don't know good from bad and mentalism addicts who will pay anything for a new fix.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees the emperor is naked.
Jerome Finley's newest book (I think)
The Subliminal Peek was extremely disappointing.
Peter Turner seems like a nice guy,
but I think everything I've read or seen from him that I thought, "That's brilliant!"
was a reference to another guy's idea. For example,
in Isabella's Star he mention's a technique found in a Michael Murphy book (and credits Murphy...I'm not saying he's just stealing ideas).
His original handling of Isabella's Star was laughably bad.
To divine a star sign/birthdate,
instead of simply having a spec write it down then peek it in any number of ways which would take 10 seconds for the METHOD to be done with,
Turner has the spectator add the day to the month number, divide it by 9 *(not the actual mathematics), which should end up being a 2 digit number.
Then Turner whips out a deck of cards and tells the spectator to deal out this new 2 digit number onto the table in front of Turner. After the above dead time (in other words, 1 or 2 minutes of NOT entertaining malarky just to get the number),
Turner still doesn't have the birthday.
Next, after somehow justifying the math the spectator had to do,
then justifying the deck of cards??,
the performer must himself do some mental gymnastics,
and THEN still doesn't quite have it without a bit of fishing (not a lot of fishing,
but still, when you put it all together, Jeez).
Finally, you can gaze into the spectator's eyes and tell her her birthday.
Not saying complex methods should be dismissed,
but this method becomes a visible, complex PROCESS.
I also agree about all of the melodramatic monologues that sound more like romance novels than performance pieces or even psychic readings.
IMO, such rhapsodic waxing could only be appropriate in a one-on-one performance.
Is Peter Turner material hyped ? It does thanks to all his friends on the Magic Cafe that said again and again how his new material is so fantastic. All the hyped around Peter turner, I scratched your back, please strach mine when my new book will be out kid of trick... make Turner bigger than he's really is. For the price of his books, if you want to pay the price, that's everybody business. did I bought a book at 400$ from Jerome Finley ? Of course not, I'm not that crazy.
Those two guys have a lot of friends, who endorced everything they put on the market and most of the time, they reviewed their material on the Cafe (of course very positive review, who doesn't want to received free books ???) and they have their followers... most of the time unexperienced young magicians that make the switch to mentalism and dream then of pure mentalism without props!
I prefered watching Derren Brown using props and tricks for a wonderfful show than watching a guy alone on stage, talking and talking about stories and stories... I want to be intertained whatever the method is!
Peter Turner focused to much about free mentalism without props as the real deal in the result, how you accomplished it doesn't matter as the audience doesn't know!
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